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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:45 am 
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does anyone know if she changed her mind about feminism?
If she got to know that here are ladies around the world who suffer some kinds of machismo around the world who are cruel and they need something to give their voices? does anyone know she thinks differently?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:59 am 
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I am quite sure she has known that all along. She just had no wish to align herself with any particular ideology and I don't see why that would suddenly change now.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:29 pm 
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Ideology? Everything's political in her work. Why that would change suddenly now? See Björk for instance.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:43 pm 
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It certainly is, but it is worlds removed from sloganeering or -isms, or preaching. Nobody, or at least no contemporary younger musician, comes close in subtlety, nuances and richness of Polly's "political" work. Therefore I see no need of applying labels to it. This is all in my humble opinion of course.
In regards to Björk, I'm very familiar with her work, what am I looking at exactly?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:53 pm 
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I think Demolition might mean that Björk, just like PJ, used to refuse being labeled as a 'feminist' in the 90s, but in the recent years she embraced the term, and used the term to describe herself.

We have no way of asking whether PJ's stance has changed, since she doesn't give interviews anymore, but of course her work is inherently feminist. There's no doubt about it. I guess she doesn't want to label herself in any way mostly because she wouldn't want her public political statements to influence anyone's interpretation of her music.

You have to remember that back in the 90s the word 'feminist' had a different tone/baggage associated with it, and I understand why some pro-feminist artists might want to distance themselves from it. Times change, though; people's opinions evolve. Björk here is a good example of that.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:03 pm 
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Oh, I see. Well, good for Björk. She has been doing fantastic work recently, and if describing herself as a feminist has provided her any help in it, may she long continue to do so.

Why is Polly's work inherently feminist exactly? Because she was born a woman? If i remember correctly, she very recently talked about not feeling either as a woman or a man while writing. I fail to see inherent feminism there.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:39 pm 
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I think she is a feminist and I think you can see that on her work some kind oppressions that women suffer through the years. But for a long time, the word feminist has been used with a different meaning which I think scared a lot of people to be associated with. But right now at the times we are living, I really would love to know what's Polly opinion about it. Because I think more feminists people are getting open minded and having consideration for the girls of the other countries who doesn't have a voice and suffer kinds of oppression for being themselves. Some woman who have more priviledge than the others maybe not have suffer this kind of oppression but some buy the cause in the name of the others cause they have consideration and see how important the equality between the sexs..

ps: i sent her some private messages but no answer


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:57 am 
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Thank you TheNightingale. Mr Badmouth: it's not a question of "label", and I don't think it's "helping" anyone to be a feminist in this world we live in, you know? And yeah, being born a woman helps a lot, since just as 51% of people on Earth you experience sexism, violence, patriarchy and supremacism every single day. So yes, it might help to write and compose songs like Snake or Sheela-na-gig, Dress, Man-size, Working for the Man, Who the Fuck?, Pocket Knife, Hardly Wait or Taut, for some examples.

About Björk: http://pitchfork.com/features/interview ... ith-bjork/

Pitchfork: When it was originally misreported that Vulnicura was produced by Arca, instead of co-produced by you and Arca, it reminded me of the Joni Mitchell quote from the height of her fame about how whichever man was in the room with her got credit for her genius.

B: Yeah, I didn’t want to talk about that kind of thing for 10 years, but then I thought, “You’re a coward if you don’t stand up. Not for you, but for women. Say something.” So around 2006, I put something on my website where I cleared something up, because it’d been online so many times that it was becoming a fact. It wasn’t just one journalist getting it wrong, everybody was getting it wrong. I’ve done music for, what, 30 years? I’ve been in the studio since I was 11; Alejandro had never done an album when I worked with him. He wanted to put something on his own Twitter, just to say it’s co-produced. I said, “No, we’re never going to win this battle. Let’s just leave it.” But he insisted. I’ve sometimes thought about releasing a map of all my albums and just making it clear who did what. But it always comes across as so defensive that, like, it’s pathetic. I could obviously talk about this for a long time.

Pitchfork: The world has a difficult time with the female auteur.

B: I have nothing against Kanye West. Help me with this—I’m not dissing him—this is about how people talk about him. With the last album he did, he got all the best beatmakers on the planet at the time to make beats for him. A lot of the time, he wasn’t even there. Yet no one would question his authorship for a second. If whatever I’m saying to you now helps women, I’m up for saying it. For example, I did 80% of the beats on Vespertine and it took me three years to work on that album, because it was all microbeats—it was like doing a huge embroidery piece. Matmos came in the last two weeks and added percussion on top of the songs, but they didn’t do any of the main parts, and they are credited everywhere as having done the whole album. [Matmos’] Drew [Daniel] is a close friend of mine, and in every single interview he did, he corrected it. And they don’t even listen to him. It really is strange.

Pitchfork: How does it make you feel when this happens now?

B: I have to say—I got a feeling I am going to win in the long run, but I want to be part of the zeitgeist, too. I want to support young girls who are in their 20s now and tell them: You’re not just imagining things. It’s tough. Everything that a guy says once, you have to say five times. Girls now are also faced with different problems. I’ve been guilty of one thing: After being the only girl in bands for 10 years, I learned—the hard way—that if I was going to get my ideas through, I was going to have to pretend that they—men—had the ideas. I became really good at this and I don’t even notice it myself. I don’t really have an ego. I’m not that bothered. I just want the whole thing to be good. And I’m not saying one bad thing about the guys who were with me in the bands, because they’re all amazing and creative, and they’re doing incredible things now. But I come from a generation where that was the only way to get things done. So I have to play stupid and just do everything with five times the amount of energy, and then it will come through.

When people don’t credit me for the stuff I’ve done, it’s for several reasons. I’m going to get very methodical now! [laughs] One! I learned what a lot of women have to do is make the guys in the room think it was their idea, and then you back them up. Two! I spend 80% of the writing process of my albums on my own. I write the melodies. I’m by the computer. I edit a lot. That for me is very solitary. I don’t want to be photographed when I’m doing that. I don’t invite people around. The 20% of the album process when I bring in the string orchestras, the extras, that’s documented more. That’s the side people see. When I met M.I.A., she was moaning about this, and I told her, “Just photograph yourself in front of the mixing desk in the studio, and people will go, ‘Oh, OK! A woman with a tool, like a man with a guitar.’” Not that I’ve done that much myself, but sometimes you’re better at giving people advice than doing it yourself. I remember seeing a photo of Missy Elliott at the mixing desk in the studio and being like, a-ha!

It’s a lot of what people see. During a show, because there are people onstage doing the other bits, I’m just a singer. For example, I asked Matmos to play all the beats for the Vespertine tour, so maybe that’s kind of understandable that people think they made them. So maybe it’s not all sexist evil. [laughs] But it’s an ongoing battle. I hope it doesn’t come across as too defensive, but it is the truth. I definitely can feel the third or fourth feminist wave in the air, so maybe this is a good time to open that Pandora’s box a little bit and air it out.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:35 pm 
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Yes, I remember that interview, very informative and honest. Made me become a fan of Joni Mitchell. However, so as not to turn this into a Björk forum, and as we were interested in Polly's viewpoint, here it is "from the horse's mouth": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1g0iBbG0vA

I still think it is nothing but a question of label. I definitely don't think it is necessary to be a woman to experience sexism, violence, patriarchy and supremacism. I am a man, if somewhat untraditional, and I have experienced all of it. I strongly feel the sentiments expressed in those songs you mentioned. However, I don't think they are to be taken at face value. Most of them are very funny, in the first place. I also remember Polly talking about experiencing no catharsis whatsoever when writing a song, so I don't know if it is very helpful. Maybe I am just naive for believing what she says, but somehow that is my main compass when it comes to her work and life. She tends to be very concise and straightforward whenever she speaks, which is helpful.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:01 pm 
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I don't think she sees it as her cause and she is clearly not a feminist.
Apart from Maria and her manager, she rarely work with other women, which would be obscene for a feminist.
I mean, she has this big band, surrounded only by men, that bothers me a bit, she should know better things are harder for women in music like everywhere else. On the other hand, she doesn't know better because she grew up as a tom boy and succeeded like that for a while.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:40 pm 
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As a man you experience sexism? Oh what a lovely day. Tell me more. By suffering part-time pay gap of 35%? Because you're sacked when you get pregnant? You feel under-represented in the media? In the movies? Too much ads saying that you have to mop the floor? Too much princess gowns and kitchen kits when you were a kid? There's people commenting on how you have to dress everyday? Commenting on your hair everyday? On what's gracious or not? Feminine or not? People telling you what is a good reason to abort or not? Rape jokes? Locker room talk? Victim blaming? Disclosure of private details? Cat calls? Unwanted dickpics? Threats? Stalking? Groping? Revenge porn? Up-skirt photos? Dosing? Sexual coercition? Covert condom removal? People finding normal to rape you because you're drunk? Domestic violence and homicide? Forced marriage? Genital mutilation? Fear of walking alone in the streets? Fear of being alone in a bus? Fear of being alone in the subway? Fear of being alone in a train, in a plane? Battery? Rape? Murder just because you are a woman? All this just because you're a woman?

Or maybe when you ask a question about feminism, that's the harder part for you. Because a man replies that there's no particular reason to align with any particular ideology. And then continues by saying that some songs are not to be taken at face value. Because they are just very funny little jokes, in his opinion.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 4:08 pm 
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Demolition wrote:
Or maybe when you ask a question about feminism, that's the harder part for you. Because a man replies that there's no particular reason to align with any particular ideology. And then continues by saying that some songs are not to be taken at face value. Because they are just very funny little jokes, in his opinion.

^ this.

This talk about "no need" reminds me that Jenny Hval song, "That Battle is Over". Just because the idea is old, people think it is not an issue anymore.
"that battle is over, feminism is over, socialism is over. It is like the right wing capitalists saying left-wing ideas are old-fashioned. What you realize is that capitalist ideas are pretty old, too. They just come from people with a lot of power".


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 5:32 pm 
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Demolition wrote:
Or maybe when you ask a question about feminism, that's the harder part for you. Because a man replies that there's no particular reason to align with any particular ideology. And then continues by saying that some songs are not to be taken at face value. Because they are just very funny little jokes, in his opinion.


Quote:
Do people often miss her sense of humour?

“Always I would say,” Harvey laughs. “I’ve had people saying ‘why are you so angry and this song “Who The Fuck?”, I mean you’re so angry. I’m thinking ‘no, it’s being silly actually’. I thought the over emphasis of using a swear word in such a ridiculous situation in a song, how can people not see that that’s not supposed to be taken particularly seriously?”

“How can people listen to me going ‘fuck…(puts on a ludicrous high pitched voice)…you!’ and think I’m being angry and really serious?”

http://www.ianwatsonuk.com/pjharvey.html


I believe the same could be said about Snake or Sheela-na-gig, but then again perhaps you are right and those are deadly serious and angry and a desperate plea for women's rights.

I truly am very sorry and I sincerely apologise if I have in any way offended anyone, that was nowhere near my intentions. Perhaps I cannot enunciate my thoughts clearly enough, as English is my second language after all. All I wanted to say is I see no reason to apply labels at Polly's work when it has gone miles beyond them. This is the person who wrote Let England Shake, when she could have instead sung WAR IS BAD STOP ALL WARS. I think it is clear enough from what we can gather that she would not in a million years describe herself as a feminist. Of course, as there are no real recent interview, so one can assume that in three years since the Borris House talk her opinions have radically changed, but I doubt that.

I find it a bit distasteful to talk about myself on the internet especially, but as you seem to want me to tell you more of my experience with sexism, here goes:
I've never been a traditional boy, never played with toy soldiers or guns. Never loved action heroes. I've always loved to read, been interested in theatre, loved to dance and sing. I harboured an obsession with The Little Mermaid for a while. I used to pretend to be her. I wore long hair. Never really hung out with blokes or had a substantial male friend. I've only had one girlfriend so far, for a very short time. For all this I have been called gay, been pushed and kicked around, even been spat on in the street. My disinterest in anything traditionaly deemed male has been a constant source of wonder in my family, but luckily there haven't been many attempts to convert me as it were. Whenever there were quarrels in the family, I always took the woman's side, also always felt closer to the females in the family. I'm not effeminate in my behaviour at all, but I have been mistaken for a girl thousands of times. As far as I know, being expected to fit into a certain mould simply because of what you have between your legs IS sexism, and that happens to men, too. A LOT. I just haven't hung on to any of it, nor have I let it in any way shape me as a person, at least i think so.

My examples are nowhere near those extremes you have mentioned (although I certainly have felt afraid of being alone in all those places you've mentioned), of course, and that is an entirely different story. My intention was never and could never be to belittle feminism or deem it unnecessary, that would be extremely stupid and ignorant, which I hope I am not. You obviously are someone very proficient in the matter, and I admire that. I simply enjoy discussing Polly's work with fellow admirers and have tried to distance it from feminism (or leftism or communism etc.), which I am sure she herself would do, and I hope we can agree to disagree, since we obviously do.

I once again offer my most sincere apology if my words have inadvertently offended anyone.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:34 pm 
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That's interesting. What do they say, again? Show the moon and they look at your finger, right. Someone's asking about the work of a woman, her political thoughts and feminism. First answer by a man: no, irrelevant question. Next posts: me man, myself man and I man. We're not talking about Polly and feminism, we're talking about how you deal with that, if it's ideology, if it's a label, if it's a man who decides if a woman is a feminist or not.

Those "extremes" I mentioned are no extremes. It's just basic daily life.

Men do not experience sexism. Just as white people do not experience racism. And we need decency in this world.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:53 pm 
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The very textbook definitions of both sexism and racism by no means exclude men and white people from experiencing them, but as I am obviously a spoilt male moron with no knowledge of the world whatsoever and a superiority complex to boot, perhaps I should just shut up. Have a lovely day.


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